Leeds Banter Archive April 10 2016

10 Apr 2016 21:21:47
I've been very fortunate in that I've been through the very good times with Leeds ( and the very bad times ) but it sad to say that the very good times for the young fans is a million miles away at present? I really hope in my life time we see those times again not just for us older fans but the young diehards who have only seen a poor Leeds in comparison theirs no feeling like it to be hated and envied in the same breath?

11 Apr 2016 00:28:12
PB i'm with you. I am 56 and have been following our great team since 1966. I doubt that I will see them at the top again in my lifetime the way things are going. I almost check the results now and am actually surprised if they win. Such a pity.
Anyway, I love Leeds and always will no matter where we are in the leagues. Saying all that. who know, good manager in that players respect and play for and in 3 - 5 years who knows.

MoT.

{Ed007's Note - Who did you support for the first 6 years of your life? ;) Sounds like you're a bit of a glory hunter, Freddy lad.}

11 Apr 2016 09:51:28
also we have to think about football in general. some football fans support teams that have never had the highs we have had, in football really if you ever have any glory that is a bonus. My mates and family are charlton, millwall and leyton orient so they have never had much to cheer about. at leeds we have had highs and lows and I think that is a good mix and better than most.

11 Apr 2016 16:50:49
Bermo
It's not about highs n lows. It's about shooting for PL football. Here's the thing about Charlton Millwall and Orient. Their combined population is not even half that of Leeds. We should be in the PL. Your posts about settling for below par adequacy is truly wack.

11 Apr 2016 18:07:41
what has population got to do with anything George? we rent our ground and TA, there fore our big gates return little profi meaning we are on par with these little teams, which is a good point you always miss. also these lesser teams didn't nearly go bust a few years back and have been ripped by bates and gfh for years.

why should we be in prem? because we was good in the 70's, because we won it in 92? becuase we were in it in 2004? many teams have had PL football since us but they are not in prem?

leeds are a small club with a big ground (which they do not even own) the past chairmen dug a hole so big that any size population will not get them out.

on paper, on recent history and in every sense leeds should be no where near prem league as much as i'd love us there it is dillisional to think we should be there or even challeneging at this point

now george tell me again why are my posts wack and why should we be in prem league?

11 Apr 2016 18:14:23
also our attendance is not even in top three in championship so even going on that (which is bat S""T crazy btw) we shouldn't be going up or near prem league. so when you look at our attendance take away the rent and add to that the debt we are in we should be finsihing around 8th in league one. so we are doing pretty well at the moment.

11 Apr 2016 19:30:47
Bermo
Leeds is a big city. It has just short of a million people in it. It is a thriving business centre. Population has everything to do with it. It's called target market. You see normally you support where you are born. There are exceptions but as a rule of thumb or guide. All along I've said we have no divine right to be vying for silverware but we are sufficiently big to demand and deserve a decent annual attempt at gaining PL status. Population my friend ought to be the incentive or carrot for the Italian to invest. Yes it is best we own our ground and Cellino said he was going to buy it 48 hours after completing his purchase of us. Obviously we have had problems but that can't be dined out on as an excuse forever. I stand by my analysis it this summer or fall for LUFC. You eventually lose what you have in this game if you don't invest. Our padawan academy products are possibly the last we will see unless Cellino secures us. We don't currently pay or attract good players capable of taking us where we want to go. Cellino has already curtailed the academy. Those who think it's just about getting in a good manager are deluded. Those days went 3 decades ago. Good investment equals better team equals increased revenue because of superior one team city population equals a chance at promotion. Your current we just another small club lucky to be alive is so 7 years ago.

11 Apr 2016 20:15:44
i get the size of the city point but you don't seem to understand we sit around 4/ 5th in attendance table but we only get around 50% of gates due to very high rent putting us around 15th in championship attendance, so leeds gate for all intended purposes is around 11k, which is not much in terms of profit (think FFP)

then our beloved chairman brought a club rom a dodgy company GFH so the club was in a massive pit, so buying the ground is not possible (again think FFP and the people who own ground do not want to sell)

some of your comments are daft as a brush. my comments of club being lucky to survive due to debt is so 7 years ago. that is like saying to a bankrupt person who was in millions o pounds of debt that he should get over it in 7 years?

also comments about people who think manager will make the difference are deluded. look at lesciter, spurs, bourmouth, watford and west ham. they are all doing ar better than they should just because they have great managers. A good manager can still make all the diference want proof look at prem table.

we do not pay wages and fees becuase we can not afford to, leeds are a poor club no matter how big the city is, to think otherwsie or think we should be challeneging or prem is deluded.

11 Apr 2016 21:05:10
Have to disagree with you on this point George, I certainly do not consider myself as deluded that I support LEEDS UNITED and always will, irrespective of whether MC pumps money in (GFH? )

And it certainly was not 7 years ago when Bournemouth Population around 190,000 and average attendance around 12,000 were promoted to the Premier league playing far and away the most attractive football, without any stars, players predominantly picked up from div 1 and Championship. How? Yep Eddie Howe, superb Englush manager given ample time by the board and supporters to deliver the dream.

Question George what will you do if there us no investment? Your post reads like an ultimatum George, if it is I would ask you to reconsider, you already support the best Team in the land.

11 Apr 2016 23:35:52
Classof92,
You can take me out of Leeds but you canna take Leeds out of me. No-one can.
I'll always support Leeds no matter what.
I just want to see the money go in before it's too late. I am concerned.

12 Apr 2016 01:29:55
BW your figures of 50% of gate revenue, which in turn puts us 15th in attendance table are based on what? Are you somehow privvy to this information? I'm just curious as you usually ask people to base there post on logic?

12 Apr 2016 09:44:15
i was hoping someone would pick up on that, in a post further up george gfh weakening their stance and us getting back to normal around 2020, so I thought we while we making stuff up I might as well give it a go.

in all honesty I know we sit around 4/ 5th in attendance but we do rent ground/ ta and have loans which must take a large portion of gates away from club putting us far lower down the attendance table, I have no idea where but everyone can see with this into account our massive gates do not count for much so on that arguement we are probably sitting about right. you can also look at all other teams in our position and see a lot of ex prem teams sitting in league 1 and none apart from portsmouth where in any near as much S"'t as leeds so I think we are doing about right at the moment.

all this talk of being too late is rubbish it is never too late as long as leeds function as a club we have chance of getting better, yes these youngester might go but more will come through and many think they are not that good. also this might be our lot, we might never recover from risdale/ bates and always be that team that were good. look at preston, Sheff utd and blackpool they were great 100-70 years ago but now are rubbish in 100-70 years time people might say that about us? that is somtimes the way of football.

12 Apr 2016 13:10:14
Bermo
You as hypocritical as Fat Man.
Can you hear yourself?
All this talk of too late is rubbish because Sheff Utd and Preston 100 years ago were great now look at them? Are you arguing for it is too late or not? You see the thing about 100 years ago is it is 25 per cent beyond average person's life expectancy. What are we meant to do? Sing joyously from our coffin or urn? The other thing about 100 years ago is those clubs you mentioned still haven't reversed their plight. It's ongoing! Here’s the other thing. Parachute payments are increasing which makes it difficult for the rest of the Championship.
I accept your good point about ground ownership and lower gate receipts. Part of my suggestion/ plan is to buy back the ground once Cellino proves to himself a good side will see crowds of 30k plus turn up.
What else am I meant to say? You have me ruling out player investment due to not owning the ground. I'll say let's buy ground then, you say GFH makes it mathematically foolish for Cellino. So I say let's buy out GFH because it'll be too late very soon because of outside growing economic factors. You say it is too expensive let's just be a small cautious club. I accept smaller teams can and have done well but they come from an entirely different financial background with lower overhead. Leeds is a different animal. We can't be run like a minnow for too long. Otherwise guess what? We will become a Sheff Utd, Preston etc.

12 Apr 2016 21:16:07
many things george but not hypocritcial. often taken out of context and misunderstood.

i never said all this talk of too late is rubbish because look at preston/ sheff utd. my points are seprerate.

firstly all this talk of history bores me. we were great who cares look at great clubs who are now in league 1 we may never be great again

then talk of it being this summer or never is rubbish look at bouremouth/ lesciter. each club is different a good manager could make all the difference (something you think is from eras long gone)

as for what are you meant to say.? well while I will not answer that I will say this. we are in debt, we were on our knees not that long ago, we are lucky to be where we are. the fact we spent 3 mill on a player and have a good young sqaud who have not been sold for peanuts speaks volumes and shows progress.

i would say do not run before you can walk, rome wasnt built over night and don't fly to close to the sun (we did all that before and it didn't do us well)

forget history and remember it as only a memory, be greatful to soport a medicore team in champsihp and count every blessing. things may or may not get better but they could be worse.

10 Apr 2016 19:13:42
The sooner Evans is gone, the better, he is the most self opinionated manager/ coach this club has ever had?

He has to be dividing the players with 'who did good/ bad/ improvement needed' spiel every week? And in public?

He obviously thinks any self publicity is good publicity, I'd rather he just kept his gob shut and tried to understand that ultimately he is the person putting people on the pitch and has to take responsibility for them?

After watching Woods miss two sitters yesterday I have to ask why Evans would put him back in the team again, but what do I know?

Just waiting for Cellino to sack him, obviously we need the fat lady to sing, not the fat man.

10 Apr 2016 11:26:30
Thank God for MK Dons. I think the players have done their best (albeit bar Wood they didn't look that upset to have thrown the game away yesterday) , but with the collective ability of the squad, we are very lucky not to have gone down.

I think Evans also has done well and is passionate (Bridcutt loan was a big factor in Championship safety) , but what is it about Leeds, Colin's achievements at Rotherham look better than Revie and Shankly put together, but was awful at Leeds?

I can't imagine Cellino has any emotional attachment to our beloved institution, but was clever enough to spot the best opportunity in any British club to massively increase income. Unfortunately he didn't acquire 100%, so can imagine why there may be reasons making it difficult to invest proper money. Having said that, whilst any investment on his part will benefit other shareholders, it will also increase the value of his majority stake and afford the opportunity of a quicker exit.

I just just hope MC realises how lucky he has been this season with little investment in manager or squad. His not inconsiderable cash injection would have been worth very little had we gone down. I can't see the players being worth much, as the youth hasn't really shone or progressed in a very average Championship.

Strictly from a business perspective, I think a real opportunity has been missed this year, where return on player investment would have been maximised. Burnley looked very average yesterday (and should have lost had we had a half decent striker and an ability to pass through midfield) , with countless empty seats and they are top of the league. In terms of player talent Brighton look a shadow of the team under Poyet and even we managed to beat Hull! To my untrained eye the only side that looks capable of staying in the Prem is Middlesborough.

In all likelihood next year there will be 3 bigger teams (now) than Leeds in the Champ, so little chance to go up and will have to wait until the following year when Burnley, Hull, Brighton or whoever, come back down, but then they will have the benefit of the completely unfair TV money Sky give to teams no one supports in the Prem and a parachute payment.

Surely Cellino wants to protect his investment, does he really think he'll get crowds greater than 17000 at home next year, when significant investment will be required just to stay in the Championship?

Sadly we have lost one if not 2 generations of young fans in Leeds (despite now being down south, I come from Leeds as did my father and grandfather) to higher profile Prem clubs, its only people of the 40 plus age group who have seen better times, who are forcing their children to follow the garbage (compared to our illustrious past and the Prem) seen on the pitch. Time is fast running out for the sleeping giant to wake up.

Rant over, but I just can't understanding MC's thinking not as a supporter but from cold hard business perspective, he's well and truly in now and investment is his only way out. What's the Tom Hank's film about baseball, with the line, "if you build it they will come"?

I have been to 4 away games this year, Fulham, QPR (Wood looked a world beater yesterday compared to that performance) , Charlton and Brighton and have seen one goal, a penalty.

We met a charming family from Preston on holiday in Lanzarote, so will be going to the last game of the season. I have declined the offer (my wife thinks somewhat rudely) to sit with our friends and will force one daughter to sit with me and the massive away support (5,600) . I was offered from my old job seats for the Brighton game, but thank God was right on that occasion to seek solidarity in numbers. We are still the best fans in the world and it is that and only that, that makes me want to pay to endure a further 90 minutes, if only MC or an investor could see this!

10 Apr 2016 13:00:18
Excellent post, Sevenoaks. As George says this is last chance saloon. Failure for Cellino to properly invest in the summer will see the tide go against him. We cannot go on having season's with no ambition.

10 Apr 2016 16:15:31
My worry is that even if MC was prepared to splash the cash (which I seriously doubt) , who have we got to source any quality players for the sort of fees and wages he will pay? Don't think we've signed anyone special since he arrived, and can't see that changing.
We don't have a single player who worries the opposition, and we don't have a player who excites me to watch them .

10 Apr 2016 16:34:53
Very good, well thought out post sevenoaks.
I've always been a Cellino supporter however if he doesn't spend decent money next season then I don't see the point in him being our owner (from his point of view) .
I mean what does HE get out of finishing in the bottom half of the championship or worse every season with dwindling crowds.
All I can see he gets from owning us at the moment is the ego boost from owning a club that was once (a long time ago) one of the top clubs in Europe!

10 Apr 2016 18:09:24
Sevenoaks
Quality post. Let's think ahead to next season. I see the championship improving even more next season. Wigan and Burton are two good sides who should hold their own in this league. The playoff winning team will likely struggle but what if it's Bradford. Been a bogey team for us over the last decade. What with parachute money teams Villa Newcastle and probably Sunderland coming down without serious investment I honestly see us going down into League One. We will certainly be involved in the relegation battle. We badly need 3 goalscorers and 3 central defensive reinforcements and cover for Charlie.

10 Apr 2016 21:26:33
Speedy, I agree I can't see Cellino splashing the cash on transfer fees, but there are cheap buys out there, Byram being a great example. What is unacceptable though given our support and merchandising sales is I read our wage bill is something like 7th lowest in the Championship. There was a time when players aspired to play for a high profile/ big club like Leeds because big clubs could afford bigger wages, sadly TV revenue in the Prem has ruined this.

10 Apr 2016 11:08:21
What's this now with SE that after we have lost, he quotes the opposition manager/ players saying they agree with his substitutions, or they were lucky to beat us.
Who gives a rats arse (didn't think flying F*** would get through the censors) what they think? Well obviously he does. He's just going through the motions of someone who fully realises he's on his way out, and his sound bites are sounding more and more like job interviews to me.

10 Apr 2016 16:54:39
It's called job self-preservation. Your point Speedyg connects well with the post from 1LU above. Sabotage Steve has to go. He deceives to flatter but fails in both.

10 Apr 2016 08:46:38
Let's be honest.? Evans isent everyone's choice to be manager BUT I see a lot of people on hear saying he has to go, and let's bring in a high profile manager. what "high profile" manager would go any where near LEEDS UNITED whilst it is run by such a arrogant self believing total idiot that is cellino. I don't see the answer?
There are at least 5 players who need to be not playing next year BUT again, who are we going to replace them with, no one any more experienced because AGAIN who will want to come here at the moment.
One suggestion is don't get anyone who was in the same situation as Bamba was. needed a decent contract, played with heart and soul in the games up until he was sorted out then he couldn't care less for LUFC.

10 Apr 2016 11:23:24
come on Darren have we not covered this BORED BORED BORED BORED BORED. high profile no we will not get klop but we could improve on SE. They do not have to be high profile who was eddie howe and alex neil a while back? they have to be decent and will a decent manager go to leeds. OF COURSE HE WOULD. how about players. well lower league players can be good (austin, vardy, beckford etc) and would players come to leeds unless at bigger clubs. OF COURSE THEY WOULD.

why are people still posting the same things?

10 Apr 2016 07:49:14
I think on a positive note, we actually looked OK yesterday. Most games this season we have at least been in the game, just lapses and individual errors seem to cost us, there's been a. Lot games where it could of gone our way had didn't, I'm hopeful that with a couple of addtions and a coupl of players leaving we may be looking at a higher finish next season.

09 Apr 2016 23:40:34
Goal in first minute. Bamba misses header with Vokes. Silvestre not positioned right. It happens. Point being excuses for Bamba; but he's a nice chap. He's not nearly good enough. As far as Wood is concerned I've said it from the start - no better than Morison probably worse. Wood is getting some service Morison got none. Wood misses so many chances and so many headers. Jumps too early and often yards from where he should be. We should try and get some return on his fee. Get rid. He's awful,

10 Apr 2016 00:30:38
I have to agree in regards, Wood. I actually thought he was a good signing and showed a bit of ambition, and I can't remember the last time we paid 3mil for a player but your bang on! Everytime I've watched him he has not been good and for a big lad he is terrible at holding the ball up and shocking in the air.

10 Apr 2016 03:45:13
He was clean thru at one point but his attempt at controlling the ball was closer to the goal than his headers! Woeful. Problem is. Ant can't last a full game. Erwin is worse than woods That leaves douk. And his suspended
We are in big trouble.
burnley were crap yesterday. We looked shaky in defence. Goalkeeper again looked terrible. Flapped at a few
Cook. Cary. Were ok. Murphy and Dallas are also a waste of space. Having said all that. We should have won comfortably plus 2 dead set penalties not given.

10 Apr 2016 09:27:25
You are right, Wood can't head a ball. He always jumps too early which leads to the ball meeting him on the way back down from his initial leap, this means the ball bounces off his head rather than him generating power and direction. Wood should spend the summer learning to head a ball.

10 Apr 2016 12:57:34
Wood should spend the summer with SE getting out of Leeds! Along with many more rejects. Play the Academy team for the rest of the season.

10 apr 2016 16:58:23
i'm with hooky. if you can't head at this point in your career there shouldn't be a career. get rid.