Leeds Banter Archive March 18 2014

 

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18 Mar 2014 21:07:43
I hate paying tax and do all I can, legal and otherwise, to not pay it. I smuggle stuff into my country to avoid duty and do not declare my full earnings. Does that make me a criminal? No, it makes me a realist who does not like the govt to steal my money. The govt that steals our tax dollars is the criminal. Good luck Massimo, I admire your stance.
Octopus eats crocodile

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The problem with that stance mate is that if no one pays tax then we have no schools, NHS, roads etc.

I would expect a rich man like him would be a bit more clever or have better advisers so he doesn't get done by the law, shame as we need his cash and passion at the top!

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I agree with the 2nd post.

I personally hope another buyer come in now( probably wishful thinking) while they appeal.

We don't want anymore crocks running our club we need transparency

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@ 2nd poster; too few people pay far more than their share of tax. Why should one man, who due to his hard work, pay fifty people to sit on their ass through govt assistance. Be fair. Tax is theft. Too much is wasted on govt

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18 Mar 2014 19:01:24
What exactly is costing us 1m a month? if gfh brought us & can't afford to pay the bills how did they pass the fit & proper test?

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I believe GFH could pay the bills, but why should they when others are willing to do so for them in return for a possible slice of the action. ?

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18 Mar 2014 18:48:24
Whatever happens in a days time, whatever happens in a weeks time, whatever happens in a months time there will be only one LU. Whoever owns them, whoever manages them or whoever plays for them I will be supporting them through thick and thin, the good and the bad times.
And I will only stop supporting them when the world stops going round.
MOT

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18 Mar 2014 18:36:55
At least Vinnies back on sat, just what our midfield has been lacking.

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Perhaps Vinny could give the midfield players a coaching session before the game?
Second thoughts perhaps not we don't want anyone sent off!

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18 Mar 2014 20:23:55
Vinny never got a red card while he was with Leeds!

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I can't recall him even getting a yellow card for us.

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{Ed001's Note - I always thought he got a harsh press, he did go the entire season with Leeds without a card. He was just brilliant at following the manager's orders, which usually just told him to go out and frighten the opposition. When he joined Leeds he was given the chance to play football and did it very well. I always thought he was unfairly treated by the press, who just wanted to sensationalise him into the boogeyman.}

18 Mar 2014 22:41:19
Think youve got that one wrong ed he got 3 yellows in league in his only full season with us

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{Ed001's Note - maybe it was Chelsea when he did that then?}

Maybe not a coaching session, but would love to see him give pre match/half time team talk.
CH

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"Perhaps Vinny could give the midfield players a coaching session before the game?"

I'd prefer he gave them a good kicking!

Leeds4alongtime

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18 Mar 2014 18:26:49
Our once great football club is jinxed from Risdale spending money we never had, the Bates saga and now this.
Gary Mac needs to get on the phone to G�rard Houllier, and see if we can get Red Bull interested again.we can dream

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The jinx goes back to the Revie era, he was convinced a curse had been placed on Elland Rd and even had a witch from Scarboro try and lift the curse, don't think it worked though, were still cursed.

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18 Mar 2014 20:25:01
Think I dated her for a few weeks!

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The Gypsy curse

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I married her.

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18 Mar 2014 17:35:30
I don't care what David high says, we are well and truly in the rubbish if cellino fails. Heard on the radio earlier we're losing 1million a month! Wtf!

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Would the last one out of Elland Road please turn all the lights off and lock the gates. You could not make this up. Utter bloody shambles. I am beginning to think everyone is on the fiddle. Div 1 here we come again. At least I will get to see us at WAlsall who I played for back in the 80's.

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18 Mar 2014 17:23:51
We're going to be alright lads. Worst comes to worst we get relegated and we're forced to sell up some of our best players and get rid of the dead weight. We get a new manager and we're forced to use some of our youth players to get us back into the championship. Gives us ab chance to develop some youth and hopefully end up with a better team.

Whatever happens I'm sure we'll be fine.

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Why would we get relegated? One potential owner is likely to be turned down. There will be more.

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Love the attitude
CH

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Every one jumping the gun a bit, Massimo appealing verdict. Was not found guilty of intent to avoid tax but found guilty of not paying the tax. I believe Massimo has an accountant who deals with these matters so cannot be personally found guilty. judge needs to make her findings about the reason for her decision and any mitigating circumstances. Is guilty of taking bad advice criminal lot to talk about
BIGE

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Couldn't give some of this squad away never mind sell it.

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I am of half the opinion that administration would not be a bad thing.

Even being kicked down a league; at least the high earning deadwood would be gone, GFH would be gone.

And with any luck we might end up with a team full of players that actually do want to play for Leeds United

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18 Mar 2014 17:16:31
If you ask me ( and I'm no expert ) but if you buy a yacht in Italy then you pay tax on it ( to the Italians ) if you live there or not right?

UNLESS, he bought it in the USA and sailed it to Italy ( very unlikely ) then surely the tax would go to the USA!

I don't think he's going to get out of this one going on the information that we've all been given :-(

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The yacht was bought & registerd in the USA By a USA Company of which MC is a director who happens to haved lived in Miami since 2005, then sailed to sardinia in EU waters & by EU Law NON EU citizens who sail a yacht into EU waters can stay there for 18 Months before paying Import Duty!

How long MC has been a USA Resident or how long the yacht was in EU Waters bo obe seems to know as yet.

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18 Mar 2014 17:14:26
In Italy there are three stages in court Massimo Cellino has now taken the 3rd stage that is to appeal this now means in Italian law he is innocent until that court date. His solicitor has also spoken of the 3 stage system in Italy. Below is a good post from Ka01 from another site so let's hope its not all doom and gloom just yet.

I believe Massimo Cellino has been done for "Accounting Fraud".
That's a joke, the EU accounts aren't signed off most years because of fraud in EU departments. They get away with accounting fraud on a grand scale!

By the way not all convictions lead to automatic disqualification as the media seem to want us to think.
There is a clause that convictions that don't fall within certain categories and don't attract jail sentence 1 year or more will not lead to disqualification. That clause has to be there or people convicted of minor crimes like minor traffic offences would be disqualified.
Tax evasion is not a minor crime of course but has he been convicted of that or "Accounting Fraud".
Just an interpretation to show why FL not jumping to conclusions like some of the media haven't been able to resist!
"Accounting Fraud" could mean that they have decided he switched the ownership of the boat to the Company without any justification for doing so and possibly without the Company paying any consideration for receiving the yacht. Doing that legally would not be tax evasion but tax avoidance which is legal.
Perhaps by saying "Accounting Fraud" rather than tax evasion the Court has made it necessary for the FL to check its position. Who commits an "Accounting Fraud"? The client or the Accountant? Perhaps Cellino should sue his Accountant?!
There is also the question that under Italian law if Cellino appeals he is not guilty until the appeal case is settled. As Shaun Harvey said in bhis letter to the MP, someone is innocent until proven guilty and the rules do say pending cases are not a reason for disqualification .
I am not saying who is right and who is wrong but just pointing out that despite the ruling in the Italian court it is not all as clear cut as some would have us believe!

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18 Mar 2014 16:31:06
Goodbye Massimo, sadly your time in England has come to a rather inevitable end. I suspect the GFH muppets will be facing him in court in the coming months; there is one hell of a legal scrap to come; brace ourselves for the 10 point deduction!

I would have enjoyed the roller coaster ride with old Massimo in the driving seat!

GFH feck off; current communications from this lot remind me of the last days of Chemical Ali!

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18 Mar 2014 14:11:07
So radio jeff, your statement last week read ' As I understand it.
Massimo has been asked by the FL for proof that he has settled the VAT evasion case in Italy for the boat.
I am assured this has now been done and awaiting clearance from the Italian authorities.
Nice one son.
Let's get on with the football.
Jeff '

Oh dear, looks like you re busted again, you need to tell massimo to stop telling you porkies as all this non truth is making YOU look foolish.

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18 Mar 2014 16:04:39
I really hope that Cellino gets the nod but he probally won't, so I pray that Red Bull come back in for us and save us. Is there any solid evidence or reliable rumours saying that Red Bull are still interested?
MOT

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18 Mar 2014 15:28:32
I know it all looks doom and gloom at the moment, when Cellino appeals [his lawyer as already stated ]if he wins the appeal will he then be able to takeover or as he got a plan b in place now or will GFH sell to the first bidder again.

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But it could still take weeks for results of the the appeal so where is the money coming from to help keep us afloat, can't see it coming from GFH, hope cellino has a plan B up his sleeve, he could however just walk away demanding his money back leaving GFH to take the first available offer if there is one, lions led by donkeys yet again.

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18 Mar 2014 14:51:40
How exactly does failing to pay import duty prevent you from owning a business? The fl are being petty if that's the case.

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18 Mar 2014 14:37:23
Will he, Wont he?.
Can he, can't he?.
Lets put it this way boys and girls the season ticket renewal is normally February, So will I be charged Division 1 prices or Championship prices, even though I am not employed at the moment I will still be there next season along with my son. I just need someone to buy one of my internal organs.

MOT

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I really do need a kidney Big Mark. How much? I am happy to pay MORE than season ticket price. Will collect. JD

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18 Mar 2014 14:33:51
Will he appeal if he is barred by the Football League?


His lawyer in Sardinia, Giovanni Cocco, said he considers the verdict "unjust" and they will appeal. Cellino is also very likely to appeal against the Football League if it bars him and his company, Eleonora Sports, from taking over. Sources close to Cellino cite three grounds: that the conviction itself is being appealed, that anyway this tax conviction in Italy should not be classed as "an offence of dishonesty, " and that Cellino himself is a minority shareholder in Eleonora Sports, which is owned by his family trust.

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18 Mar 2014 14:29:55
Well I for one am gutted. well forever and ever! MOT

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18 Mar 2014 13:42:52
Why on earth would someone with soo much money try and avoid paying tax?? It just comes back to bite on the you know what. Or should I say bite LUFC. Here we go on the long and winding road of misery. It'll probably go on and on all next season as well and we will be in the same boat, pardon the pun next season. blah blah blah
Come on give LUFC a bloody break!

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He and his lawyer were convinced he owed no tax. Italian law is shady at best.

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He probably thought paying tax for a boat is stupid. Or he forgot he had to

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Will give McDermott more time and the takeover excuse to use for longer

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18 Mar 2014 13:21:50
statement from the FL reads:

A Football League spokesman said: "The Football League has noted the outcome of the Court hearing earlier today regarding Massimo Cellino.

"We are engaged in an ongoing dialogue with his legal representatives in this country and cannot comment further at this time."

nothing decided just yet - hold on to your hats.

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18 Mar 2014 13:17:44
The Haigh guy stating there is no chance Leeds will be taken under administation. Is he the same guy who assured us of GFH's muscles in funding the club this season?
I rest my case!

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Gone NASA Horrible, that's for sure, Gutted, enough said. hope we can MOT

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18 Mar 2014 12:36:19
With MC conviction, we are screwed. No doubt Farnan and his group are celebrating but unsure if he is the answer. Just seems like a marginally better man's Bates.

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If the 75% that Massimo was going to buy from gfh, now he's convivted and will appeal against it, is it legal for his son to buy 45% in his name and Massimo having 30% or under?

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18 Mar 2014 12:01:31
Can someone answer me one question, if I was found guilty of tax evasion would it be classed as a criminal conviction, we all know the answer to that, so how can anyone expect FL to pass someone who has been convicted whilst in the process of applying for clearance, let's just try and come to terms with the fact cellino has no chance and start asking where do we go from here.thanks to gfh loaning money from anyone who would give them it makes the club an even worse prospect than it was before, and I don't think anyone will touch it and it's all down to gfh you have ruined our great club, now come out and tell us what your going to do, you owe us that at least, because you say you won't let the club go into administration that means to me that's exactly where were heading.

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I fear the worst. let's hope we can survivor

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18 Mar 2014 11:48:23
I think that a sound bite from David Haigh would be entirely appropriate given his recent statement }

The club is in good hands. It has money and there is no chance of the club going into administration. None whatsoever, " he said.
"I keep hearing these whispers, where people have put two and two together to make 550. We had a winding-up order recently, which caused fans to panic.
"But the club is not in any kind of precarious financial position. Either now or in the future. It is not true and never has been."

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18 Mar 2014 10:37:07
Well done gfh, this is what you get when you do deals with dodgy Italians, what now you going to go cap in hand to farnan group, beg steal or borrow off them, from a Leeds point of view I hope they decide to take pity on you, from a personal point of view I hope they tell you to Alabama off, that's what you deserve.weeks ago you ignored them wouldn't even sit around a table with them now there your last option, also David haigh what you going to do now all gone tits up for you, what goes around comes around you backstabbing year.

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Well, we don't know it has gone base over apex yet. Surely Cellino had a contingency for this and we really don't know what the FL are considering. IF they were waiting for this court case and IF it is a pivotal decision we can expect an announcement from them very very soon!

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18 Mar 2014 12:10:50
That's one decision made we've been waiting for, whatever you might feel about Cellino I think many were - and probably still are willing and hoping to give the bloke a chance to turn this frustrating constant merrygoround of season after season of false promises, uncertainty.

-Possible many outcomes;
FL have yet to make an announcement but not expecting any blessing.

GFH need to make a statement after FL do, I know that much.

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The FL knew about this tax case and said early last week that it would make a decision in 10 days time, obviously based on the outcome of the trial. Now I see on teamtalk that there is a meeting planned for next month! FFS I hope they've got it wrong as this is getting ridiculous now.

Mad Mick

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18 mar 2014 10:09:13
i really thought we were on the way back with mr.cellino.this is just what the fl need, of all the dubious owners we get punished again.oh well, chins up and hope for a saviour.

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This may be completely flying a kite but as this site is for rumours, I've just read that Cellino has signed over Eleanora sports to his children while keeping a 27.5% share - below the 30% share he needs to hold to be prodded and poked etc by FL. I've no idea whether this would work even if true. Dodgy 'shadow directors' are known to - for example - insolvency law .

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18 Mar 2014 10:06:04
Regarding the sudden wailing and gnashing of teeth, do we know for sure that the FL were awaiting this court case? As Cellino is appealing he probably still can't be judged by the FL until the outcome of that appeal, I would have thought. This does not necessarily mean the takeover is sunk

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The governing body's "fit and proper persons" rules prohibit people with unspent convictions for dishonesty offences from being directors, 30% owners or from exercising control over one of its clubs. As per Guardian on line.
Cellino has 90 days to appeal.

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Exactly, as per The Guardian, I think they are running with the bit between their teeth. They know no more than you or I but have decided the takeover will be blocked, an unproven assumption

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18 Mar 2014 09:42:54
Ok Jeff. what's next. you got this one sooo wrong. I was hoping so much that you were in the know. but alas. sorry to vent this towards you, but your positive posts really did get my hopes up.

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18 Mar 2014 09:15:51
guilty verdict, so we now go to hell in a hand cart! I FEAR THE WORST

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18 Mar 2014 10:07:34
When your luck is out! Typical, just when McDermott (the hapless) gave his backing yesterday to Cellino he has been found guilty!

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Ed, do us all a big favour, can you research the Football League rules about points deductions for the imminent Administration. Will it be 10, 12 or will I need to dig out my old 15 points who gives a **** t shirt? cheers MorleyWhite

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{Ed001's Note - I don't think you need to worry, I believe his conviction is not going to rule him out of owning a football club. Having had a quick hypothetical chat with someone who should know, though wished to remain nameless, I am told he should pass the fit and proper persons test if that is the only obstacle.}

Sure hope your right ed

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Ed, How can he pass now?
He's guilty of tax evasion!
or is being found guilty of tax evasion not part of the rules?!

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{Ed003's Note - ive just read hes innocent until the appeal is heard :/ }

Ed
ACCORDING TO THE LUFC STATEMENT WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED THAT ELEONORA SPORTS WERE BUYING 75% OF LUFC - ITS ELEONORA SPORTS BUYING THEM NOT CELLINO.
CELLINO OWNS 9.5% OF ELEONORA SPORTS - FL ONLY INVESTIGATE PERSONS WHO OWN MORE THAN 10%(OF ELEONORA SPORTS) - IS THIS CORRECT OR NOT? AND WHO ELSE IS BEING INVETIGATED?

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{Ed001's Note - that is how I understand it. The ownership of Eleonora Sports would need to be cleared though. They would want full documentation of that ownership before any deal would be allowed to go through.}

18 Mar 2014 09:00:46
looks like our italian hero has been found guilty
its all over and twitter

sure hope its not true!!!!!!

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18 Mar 2014 10:01:41
Its all over the Guardian on line. Cellino fined 400, 00 Euros.
Haigh did say last week that we would not go into Administration, did anybody watch his lips, George Bush style.

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18 Mar 2014 07:01:53
It will be A bad day for the Italian taxman and a great day for Leeds today.
The VAT case will be thrown out as Mr C's accountants have followed the rules that the EU impose. The yatch is registered in the USA (Which is were he lives, so why shouldn't it be) plus he doesn't own the thing! He rents it as a tourist and that's legal, clever Mr accountant.
If that's all the FA have issues with it should be plain sailing from here.
All aboard.

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Just hearing that's he's been found guilty
fined 600,000 and boat seized
hope this ain't true

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He has been found guilty, we are officially f""""d!

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Guilty Mate i'm afraid!

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Ouch, my eternal optimism was unfounded.

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Guilty, but if its only a fine and confiscation of the boat, then surely if those transactions gets completed, the conviction is spent?

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18 Mar 2014 12:24:13
Errr, no!

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