Leeds Banter Archive January 18 2021

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18 Jan 2021 20:35:37
Great to see some new posters on the Site great to have other perspectives, hope you guys will keep posting.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 20:48:16
Thank you Classof92 👍.

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18 Jan 2021 22:27:45
Sorry VD meant the Leeds supporters whilst in fairness your repeated meltdowns, have provided much merriment on the Site.

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19 Jan 2021 07:15:25
Think it was a wind up class.

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19 Jan 2021 09:26:12
More precisely Aus, much like Vile Dave himself, it was very much a lame joke.

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19 Jan 2021 09:45:48
It was an attempt at irony Aus you know like saying your supporting a cheating team (he says) but spending more time ion a rival because he doesn’t want to admit that everything about the rival team and their banter site is far superior to his own and deep down he’s embarrassed that his team had to cheat to gain promotion and cheat again to stay up!

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18 Jan 2021 20:09:39
We are letting Conor Hourihane go.
You say you want quality in M/ F, he is familiar with the area, and can speak you lingo.
Happy days.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 20:57:33
I rate him and think he is a good call.

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19 Jan 2021 10:17:04
Bermo!
Get a grip of yourself man.
Hourihan is a shocking player. Can’t get into the vile team and wasn’t exactly great in champ. And he’s also a rather nasty bloke.
It’s a 200% NO.

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19 Jan 2021 11:18:28
I just remember him running all over Phillips and making him look bad . but then might have wrong player but think it was holouhane.

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18 Jan 2021 18:06:47
Last year we took a real gamble on Ben White and it paid off massively not only because of his ability but because his name was on every single championship team sheet. This year we bought two world class centre backs, who not only have not played together but also hardly played at all. Struick who should really have been 4th choice CB and possibly 3rd choice defensive midfield has played 8times in the premiership after starting very few no dead rubber championship games.

Last year the gamble paid off, this year it didn't. Let's see how we finish the season with Llorente and then Llorente and Koch forming 2 of the 4 CB options.

Believable2 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 18:35:10
A mouthwatering prospect Spanish!

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18 Jan 2021 20:56:26
Think it proves all signings are a big gamble. Rodrigo is another gamble that is yet to pay off.

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18 Jan 2021 22:35:52
Don’t think biesla will drop cooper.

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18 Jan 2021 23:00:58
Yes agreed although playing out of position because we don't have a no10.

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18 Jan 2021 18:02:47
I think Klich needs to prove himself - had hoped with being rested for the cup game he'd be back to his best - not the case. Extended break before the next game after the Southampton rearrangement gives him a chance to get back.

I also think Struijk just isn't ready at best and will never be good enough for Prem at worst. Accept he probably only plays because we've had Koch, Llorente, Cooper and Phillips out concurrently and for various reasons. My hope is that Llorente gets the nod for Southampton and can finally give us a run of games. Shackleton i think we should convert fully to full back - i think his energy lends himself to more natural play than try to compete in cm. Would love an experienced cm just to add an extra body in that midfield as Forshaw (who I still like and rated both for us and when he was at Brentford near me) is sadly finished for us i think.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 18:36:36
Struijk was never supposed to be thrust into this role this season. He would have been backup for Philips and a CB 4th choice but fair play to him he has done well.

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18 Jan 2021 16:49:12
Having reflected on recent games I feel we need to get back to basics . We seem to be fitting square pegs to round holes due to injuries . Any team especially that's just been promoted will not find it easy having lost their 2 new international centre for a long period of time . We need Ayling back at RB and Dallas at LB we definitely need an addition in midifeld in my opinion as we seem to be short of Phillips and or klich is injured or suspended.

Believable0 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 17:09:16
very true mighty

when the tippy tappy ain't working stick to the basics. over the course of a season the basics is what will get you through. not every game can go to plan, not every game will be played well but it is the basics that will win you enough points to get over the line.

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18 Jan 2021 19:09:22
I don’t agree, when you’ve got a plan/ formula, you stick to it no matter what, it worked for us to get promoted and to where we are now. True it’s not going to work for the players all the time, but they have to deal with it and persist until it starts working again. You don’t see Pep or Klopp or for that matter most of the top flight coaches suddenly changing their system because of a few negative results.

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18 Jan 2021 20:59:41
If you have a plan master it which we have but when it don’t work mix it up

Belisa plan a has never worked against a certain type of team yet he has no answer

If a team sits back with two banks of four weight as well give them the points and save ourselves the trip and bother of playing.

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18 Jan 2021 21:38:09
Yeah Berm, then we could sit back with two banks of four as well, and let the other four outfield players pass it back and forth in the centre circle, and end the game 0-0. Great spectacle! 😴😴.

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18 Jan 2021 21:55:14
We soundly beat WBA, Newcastle and Burnley with their 442 formation, your point doesn’t hold up!

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19 Jan 2021 11:21:01
Danum. I hate this saying but shake your head son

Did you watch the Crawley and Brighton game

We were awful might as well sot back game would be just as bad but at least we get a point

Again no problem with style when it works but when it don’t we look like amateurs so might as well sit back

Don’t see what you don’t get or maybe you ain’t watching the games.

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18 Jan 2021 14:54:58
Its not just about picking the best players from each team Berm it is also about the overall quality of the squad, including who we can bring in off the bench or cover for injuries.

We have been woeful of late due to not having quality in depth and not having anyone decent to bring in to replace the injured players. We don't even have enough CB's in the squad to cover at the moment which is why Ayling, Philips etc have been playing out of position - this has the knock on impact on the rest of the team as they are not in their preferred positions either.

ignoring the best players from our team and that of others, if a team has an average of £6m per player throughout the squad, that is better than our average of say 3m so overall they have a better squad.

In answer to your question, I would have the following:

West Ham : Rice (play him and Philips if needs be) Benrahma, Masuarku and Seb Haller

Fulham- Mitroivich, Antonee Robinson

West Brom- none (their teams value is one of the worst) or possibly Matheus Pereira or Grady Diangana

Palace- van arnout, zaha and Eze definitely. Like I say its not just the stand out players, I would also take some of the others who are more highly valued than the like for like players in our own team

Brighton - White, Dunk, Tariq Lamptey Lenadro Trossard

Burnley - James Tarkowski, Nick Pope (better than Casilla and arguably Messlier but I would want Messlier to continue his development with regular game time)

Newcastle - Allan Saint-Maximin, DeAndre Yedlin, Ryan Fraser and Dwight Gayle

Shelf utd - lowest valued squad, probably nobody but then that's why they are bottom

Villa - mings grealish, Targett again like for like most positions have a higher value than ours so would be an upgrade but a creator like Grealish, like Zaha for Palace would make a massive difference to us in creating chances and unlocking defences so would be worth their weight in gold

Saints - Ings and Ward-Prowse

Like I say though if you look at our poorer players and compare them like for like ignoring the 'best' playerrs you could definitely make a better team out of players from those teams than the sum of what we have but comparing individuals isn't the way footie works. You have to look at the starting line up and the squad as a whole and we are probably 15th best in the league at best - definitely not top 10 and certainly not above where our league position is.

You could get the best mechanic in the world and I guarantee they couldn't make a Ford Fiesta engine go quicker than a Mercedes in the hands of a poorer mechanic.

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18 Jan 2021 15:14:27
Excellent post Alf 👍.

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18 Jan 2021 16:18:22
Alf of course you are right it is not just about picking players.

however you have made my point. Everyone keeps saying we have championship players but we don't we have prem players which is why with a lot of teams. man for man we would stick with our players. why because they are good players.

Pick a championship team and do the same exercsise and very few make the cut because they are championship players. Leeds fans say this because it is a get out of jail card for belisa but the players are not that bad as you just confirmed

it is not how it works I agree but our players are not as bad as some on here have been saying recently. they are not championship players

Love your anagloy of Ford Focus and mercs. the trouble is we have an sports car but our manager is trying to make it perform like an f1 car and it simply is not working

as for bad form of late it is far bigger than that.

brighton played leeds, they have weaker players but bank up in defence. we lost and played badly. this is the same as wigan, Millwall and Ipswich. it is exactly the same thing

when belisa meets a certain problem he can not fix it and after three years I think that is the signs of a awful manager

great coach yes but managers fix problems and belisa simply can not and that is not down to players in any way.

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18 Jan 2021 18:38:59
No, that's not what I am saying at all. I'm saying our players for the most part are kit as good as 15 other teams in the division. They weren't even the best team in the championship as individuals but Bielsa got them playing way above their levels and still does. With any other manager I think we would crash and burn.

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18 Jan 2021 20:52:49
How you make out that berm on what Alf is saying is beyond me. You must be the only person who actually didn’t actually make sense of what Alf said.

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18 Jan 2021 21:01:39
So you would swap our players then?

They are either good or not you would either swap them or you wouldn’t?

I asked who would you swap and you said very few which means they must be better or as good as many other prem teams. that makes them prem players.

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18 Jan 2021 22:19:19
love aways days it is very very simple

either our players are prem players or not. man for man

if our players were weak we would by definition swap them for players from other teams man for man

the fact when offered the theoretical option alf only come up with a handful of names from 10 teams must mean our players by definition are not championship players but prem players because when offered the swap for other prem players he didn't take the swap

I agree with this palace, West Ham, Brighton, saint etc a good ten teams don't have that many players man for man that you would swap with our players over the 11 players. therefor our 11 players can't be that bad

many on here moan about lack of sqaud depth. I was on phone to my dad today he is a palace fan. they have real lack of squad depth leeds are not in that bad a place when it comes to the playing roster. yes we are know spurs but we are as good as at least half of the prem

again my logic here is 100% spot on.

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18 Jan 2021 22:58:23
Yes I would swap probably 5 or 6 of the starting line up. Maybe 7.

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18 Jan 2021 22:59:43
There are 26 players on my list above - how is that very few?

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19 Jan 2021 11:23:22
10 teams that’s 110 players 25 is quite a few if we are a championship team plus half the players you picked are number 9s which we don’t have a like for like for nor would mb play

Like for like you mention about ten that is less than 10% . hence making my point for me our players like for like ain’t championship.

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18 Jan 2021 13:44:46
Llórente having a very good first half for the under 23s and scored a good goal. He looks very calm and assured and reading the game well .

Believable2 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 14:16:15
Let's hope he stays fit so he can join the first team asap.

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18 Jan 2021 14:16:25
Let's hope he stays fit so he can join the first team asap.

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18 Jan 2021 14:22:23
Excellent news Spanish.

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18 Jan 2021 14:46:17
We desperately need Diego back. Getting Ayling back onto right back where he thrives and KP marshalling and distributing. We’ll be a different proposition.

U23s is not a real test. but he took the goal nicely.

Am still real worried about the depth of quality in our squad.

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18 Jan 2021 14:55:06
great news I think he will improve us no end. Koch and lorennte with ailing back at where he is best could be a huge plus for us.

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18 Jan 2021 15:02:02
Agreed Toronto the lack of depth of quality in our squad is the real issue.

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18 Jan 2021 15:14:07
Just as importantly it could allowe Dallas to move to left back in place of Alioski who is our weak link in 80% of games. MOM in other 20% though!

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18 Jan 2021 15:28:34
with Llorente in the team we would be a different proposition. It would mean that other players could go back to their natural positions (Ayling, Philips) and would also give us some much needed height (6 foot four compared to Philips 5 foot 10 or Ayling 6 foot 1) for corners for and against us. His experience and top level knowledge will also be huge plus points. This was one of our key signings in summer and to be without him has really hurt us.

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18 Jan 2021 13:11:04
Ironic that playing for the Under 23s is the only chance to play on a good pitch at home!

Believable2 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 14:55:46
yes we should move our PL games there - its not like we need the stadiums for the fans is it?

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18 Jan 2021 13:06:42
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool v Manchester United - A Liverpool Perspective

Believable0 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 10:07:33
Morning all, having read a fair few comments and posts I’m in agreement with most on here.
All this play him for the under 23’s etc, I don’t see any of them good enough to step in right now and do a job.
Same goes for the bench, except llorente on the bench on Saturday who could change the game?
Pablo? Getting past it now.
Poveda? Zero end product
Roberts? No end product made of paper
Sooner we get to play Koch and llorente together the better, Ayling back to RB and sign a proper left back.
Get quality cover/ competition for Kalvin
Maybe 1 quality winger to go with Jack and Rapha as costa and Poveda not good enough.
Quality #10
Cover/ comp for Klich
Another striker

For me this window.
Loan a CB or play llorente
Get Pulgar £10-11m
Try get Draxler £5-6m or pre contract
Forget Traore and de Paul too expensive

If the rumour was true that athletico Madrid want Rodrigo then £35m+
Use that to try get Traore or De Paul.

Summer time . Get the above if not mentioned.
A striker, keeper, and quality to add quality back up to the squad that we don’t have.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 10:39:49
Agree with some of the above especially Roberts, PAblo (so sad to say it)
Klich I think is looking one dimensional and would prefer replacement.
Desperately need cover for Kalvin although Llorente could be that if all fit
Disagree with Poveda - He is young and had looked strong in some games this year.

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18 Jan 2021 11:59:55
I agree in regard poveda, my opinion is more based on the here and now. The kid does show glimpses but what we need now is more end product.

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18 Jan 2021 12:19:41
As I have said previously our squad is one of the smallest in the number of quality players:we have no game changers on tbe bench

unless Pablo suddenly starts playing like he is 2 years younger, he can still perhaps make a difference to times like he did against Newcastle with 2 assists.

Poveda, Roberts, Davis
, Higgins etc not EPL quality

Costa if he believed in himself more might be good enough for EPL as a squad player.

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18 Jan 2021 12:49:32
Costa has to be the most annoying, he undoubtedly has ability yet never seems to look like he could careless. Let’s face it, who’d take him now? Certainly won’t get near the £15-£16 mill we paid for him. He’d prob suit most other top European leagues but not the physicality of the prem.

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18 Jan 2021 13:08:32
To be Fair Baz - Its easier to make a difference in a match that we were running away with at the time. We need him to do it when are up against it.

It guts me to say that PH is at the end of the road but he was mainly effective off the bench last year.

I think we have a potential gamechanger in Gelhardt and would have liked to have seen him against Crawley.

Rodrigo was supposed to be the game changer and we paid good money for that but only seen it in patches.

I think we should break the bank and go for De Paul.

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18 Jan 2021 13:24:45
go watch first few games of this season, costa was class and really stood out. then he got dropped and not really had much of a chance. He has impressed me this season and most of my mates watching leeds pointed him out as our best player early doors.

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18 Jan 2021 15:33:29
Costa did start the season brilliantly but his form dipped with the temperature and he just stopped looking interested. He is very lightweight and seems to be muscled off the ball easily both last season and this. he has a bit of pace but other than that doesn't really offer much. Waste of £15m imo and I think the only reason that we signed him is because we could defer the payments for a year (which I'm sure Wolves only agreed to as the were desperate to get rid) and hoped he could rediscover the form that he showed in his first season with Wolves, however, the Wolves squad as a whole were much better than ours so I think he benefitted from that and played above his level. If we are doing well and the weather is good he will probably have a decent game but he certainly won't provide what we need to dig us out of a hole and unfortunately he doesn't seem to have the ability to unlock a packed defence which is what we need against teams such as Brighton.

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18 Jan 2021 17:05:16
Costa will come good, I’m sure of that.

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18 Jan 2021 17:11:29
agree alf sadly most of our team have dipped. klich gone from world class to anonymous and sadly no one can unpick the tight defence.

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18 Jan 2021 09:58:09
Bermo, most on here do not see a that a massive revolution is required, change manager, change players, new director of football and new owners. All these type changes can have a negative impact and cause a club to go backwards, we have lost a few games, you don't keep ripping up the blueprint after a few set backs . Look at the progress we have made.
Bielsa's style creates player fatigue and this has been our main problem over his tenure, plus we have not got the most expensive or largest of squads.
He has proven with a fresh team firing on all cylinders we can give any team a game.
Look at the setbacks Liverpool have because of injury.
If we can get our our injured players back and move on the deadwood, bring in 2 or 3 players to freshen it up that would be good. Outside of this I think we should stay the course.
I think if Bielsa goes it will be his decision and I think he will have very big boots to fill.

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18 Jan 2021 13:15:43
1970 depends how you view it. I don't see a few set backs, I see the same set of problems

fatigue

poor defence

unable to do basics

unable to mix with the more phyiscal

unable to break down teams who sit back

losing to weaker teams

this is not a few set backs it is three years of the same problems. why will things change now? can we afford to still have these chinks in our armour?

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18 Jan 2021 13:30:25
also 1970 what I don't get is most leeds fans views. some of the following comments

the players ain't good enough. this is belisa fault. If you had an Oxford uni lecturer teaching 6 years olds, you wouldn't say the 6 year olds are letting the lecturer down, you would say he needs to adapt his lessons. Belisa needs to adapt his style for the players he has.

the pitch. again adapt

playing the wrong players in the wrong position. I doubt many would argue our best performance was against villa. why because belisa hand was forced. the best team selection he has managed it because he had no choice

and again the big one. when things don't suit belisa he can't not get any kind of result. he is like a gentleman boxer in a street fight, technically great but if things don't go his way he is losing

many have asked who would I have instead. someone said Pearson. yes he did amazing at lesciter and I respect him but personally I would go for Ranieri great manager proven and knows the league, I would also go for ralph hasenhoutle, would he jump ship at saints maybe not but i'd ask. I would also ask for c. v's I am sure there is another klopp, Wagner or Faluke (Norwich gaffer) in the German league who could do well here maybe.

I am not sure who is the answer but it just comes down to I don't think belisa is the right man for this squad in this position in this league at this time.

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18 Jan 2021 14:14:21
Bermo all the problems you mention happen to effect all other teams as well .
Watching the Lancs derby yesterday and you could see all the same problems, it was dire.

It is about getting the best out of the squad you have to work with and for me Bielsa has achieved this.

Based on the principal of the sum is much better than the individual parts . He has brought in a system that covers many of the individual weaknesses in the players.
He plays attractive football . He has achieved promotion and we are not in the relegation zone.
Have we the ability to add another 15 to 18 pts to get to 38/ 40 pts is the next question.
20 games to go 5 wins 2 draws or 4 wins and 5 draws.
Think you may get your wish and Bielsa will go at the end of the season anyway and it will be sad day for many of us.

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18 Jan 2021 15:00:36
he plays attractive football if the oppents game suits us

few tactical switches (brighton, wolves, crawley wigan etc) we actually play awful football. let's be honest the brighton game was awful to watch and crawley was only good because of the mighty crawley

I also don't enjoy the games where we get smashed either which happens a lot.

The lancs derby was bit dire but remember that is two teams that put ten past us in just 90 minutes

I believe the system doesn't cover our weaknesses but highlights them

giving the ball away, sloppy midfeild

set pieces

defending in general

not being clinical enough

not creating enough (in the right games)

all of these comments have been put on this forum by many. so not really getting the best from our squad is it. again biggest problem is that these problems crop up time and time again

when you take a step back from the awe of belisa, when you look at the bigger picture I think there are more problems than good points. escpailly moving forward.

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18 Jan 2021 07:39:23
{Ed's Note - Ed001 has posted a new article entitled, Review Of The Day 18th January 2021

Believable0 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 07:06:50
Players don't agree.

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18 Jan 2021 08:58:07
With what Alf?

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18 Jan 2021 11:22:37
Sorry my last message was split over 3 due to my fat fingers. Experts who rate players and values don't agree we have a top 10 squad - i terms of squad value we are 4th bottom in the Premier league so in terms of value we are currently massively overachieving. If we hadn't spent 100mill in summer we would have the lowest value squad and usually that squad is one of those that get relegated. so Bielsa is overachieving with the resources that he has available.

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18 Jan 2021 13:21:03
so alf answer this. what of the starting 11 you taking over ours

West Ham (rice maybe but most prefer phillips)
Fulham- none
West Brom- none
palace- van arnout, zaha maybe eeze but who else that's three out of 11
brighton - none
burnley - Taylor, woods maybe but then MB won't play woods
newcastle - Wilson maybe but then MB wouldn't play wilson
shelf utd - none maybe one defender?
villa - mings grealish but who else?
saints - ings but then mb won't play ings who else?

thats ten teams, half the league. so come on who do you think has the better starting 11.if not us then what six players you picking from each team above?

I don't care what anyone says our team is not that bad.

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18 Jan 2021 13:52:27
West Ham, Southampton even Vile definitely have better stronger larger squads

The other 7 teams you list is open to debate particularly I suggest in squad strength such as Brighton

but hey Leeds are above these other teams in tbe league.

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18 Jan 2021 14:26:37
So baz answer my question who you taking?

We lost to palace West Ham Brighton and Crawley four teams who man for man I think we are far stronger than.

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18 Jan 2021 14:28:10
Also baz let’s say you are right

We have one of the weaker teams in the leauge

Why is belisa trying to play like the strongest then? Why don’t he work on basics as they will be important and find a way of playing so we can break the better teams down?

Play for the squad you have not the one you want.

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18 Jan 2021 14:54:06
Berm to conclude

we are a newly promoted team

we are going to lose quite a lot of matches over a 38 game season

We are doing better than I expected with 23 points and 12th place so far with a small squad in quality and our centre backs of Koch and Llorente injured for much of the season so far.

Does Bielsa have weaknesses? : of course but I am grateful he is Leeds manager/ coach or Berm would you prefer his equal in your eyes Hockaday 🤪.

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18 Jan 2021 14:57:25
West Ham and Brighton have squads of higher value and have more PL experience so you are incorrect there. Crawley yes but we had half a team and couldn't be bothered.

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18 Jan 2021 16:21:56
we are newly promoted so need a manager who can work around this not plough on regardless

we are going to lose I accept that. I can not accept we are losing the same we we did three years ago. I expect a manager better than hockaday who has spent 100 million to finally work out a better way to play teams who bank up but belisa can't can he?

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18 Jan 2021 07:06:42
Raphina and Rodrigo and finally Costa who is hopeless. The rest of the quad are only worth about 70million which is ok for Championship but certainly not top 10 in terms of the Premier league. The teams with lower value than ours in the squad are West Brom, Burnley and Sheffield Utd. You say there are 12 teams 'worse than us but the experts who value.

Believable1 Unbelievable0

18 Jan 2021 09:31:34
Spot on Alf
Berm totally wrong.

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18 Jan 2021 07:03:53
Berm you say 'we don't have a bad squad on paper', however, in terms of value we are rated as only having the 4th lowest value of all PL clubs. a lot of the value and specifically the £100m that you rave on about is in 5 players, 2 of whom are not playing due to injury (Koch and Llorente who between them are worth nearly 30m)

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