Leeds Banter Archive March 25 2014

25 Mar 2014 22:42:13
i have been a leeds fan for more years than I care to remember but apart from the cup final against villa I can't ever remember feeling so angry disiilusioned and I hate to say it embarassed as I am now .its just unbelievable what has been done to the club by succesive owners and let's say it groups of players.this club shows football players as they really are pure mercenaries playing for the money with no care or loyalty to the club fans or anyone else. football should introduced a wage structure sensible basic pay, win bonus goal bonus clean sheet bonus performance bonus, make them earn there money.im on minimum wage not 10,000 + and it makes my blood boil when players don't do their best when there are people who would give everything just for the chance to wear the white shirt and stand on the same pitch on which the legends that are bremner giles batty cantona and god rest him garry speed played on.

25 Mar 2014 22:22:44
Does anyone else think that it looks like people are being shipped out (including Wickham) because they desperately need to reduce the wage bill!

Totally agree hope kebe stewart butland and peltier are next

DICKO
I got told from a GOOD source he has got to reduce the wage bill by35% AT LEAST :(

25 Mar 2014 22:09:04
Just out of interest the FL rules state that if we do not go into administration by Thursday night then the 10 points are next season, so all been well we should be OK for this season, sorry but Taxi for Brian, Kermit could do a better job

Okay for this season? If we get 10 points deducted for next season we will be relegated the way we are playing its not Okay or good news in anyway!

25 Mar 2014 22:06:51
Have some dignity brian and just go, don't blame anything but yourself, please.

Another Disgraceful Performance how much more of this can we take? What next Administration and 10 points deducted and relegation?

Nice guy but clearly the players are not playing for him. I have gone through 3 takeovers in why job and there is nothing you can do about it other than get on with your job. These players are wel paid. If they go they will get there contracts paid up. Stick the youth team in this bag of s. Are not playing for leeds Utd. We could still go down if results go against us

As we can't afford to sack Brian McD and he won't walk, can't he be put on garden leave on full pay? Then get Redfearn and Naylor to run it to the end of the season. Nice bloke but that's where it ends, no umph, no tactical awareness, no motivational skills and no hope I'm afraid Brian. I wanted you to be a success but enough is enough.

The whole team were shocking tonite. no closing down standing off allowing a dangerous passing freedom. allowing one of the best crossers in the xhampionship free will to cross and the defence were out of position all the rime. 2 goals from the same mistake that's the managers fault. He should have nipped that straight away.

Smith won all headers and nobody got on to them and byram creative down the wing with noone busting a gut to get in the box. mccormack had the decency to repay the fans constant chants with a goal. Rest not fit to wear the shirt. thanks GFH.

25 Mar 2014 21:55:53
Maybe we should allow Jack to return to Stoke. This move is only going to damage his world cup chances, poor sod.

25 Mar 2014 22:51:13
If he had any chance of representing England at W.C. we may as well stay at home!

25 Mar 2014 21:35:06
To make my misery complete all I need to hear is the dread word 'consortium'. I've a horrible feeling we will be hearing it soon .

25 Mar 2014 21:21:30
Tonights Leeds commentary The lad and eddie gray - both seem totally not bothered? . they must have been told to lay off with the negativity because they sound like a pair of Limp Lemons - We are 4.0 down for Donkeys sake? and they are both mellow and upbeat? what theCamel is going on - Lowest point for many many years - apathy from all concerned - and now even the commentary team - shocking! no owner no manager no players - and worse of all none of them seem bothered

You clearly don't listen often this is how they always sound

Except McCormack he wants commending with his never give up perceiverence this season, to score 20 odd goals in a crap team takes some doing.

25 Mar 2014 21:08:40
credit to the fans who have paid for this rubbish paid their hard earned money to support this, and their still chanting!

25 Mar 2014 22:49:59
Hat off to all the fans! No matter what happens we will always be leeds! In our blood and I wouldn't give anyone the satisfaction of saying anything different!

25 Mar 2014 21:04:46
4-0 down at Bournemouth, no passion from the players again! Sort it out Leeds get rid of all the dead wood and re build for next season.

I can remember saying the same last season.

Yes mate we have made absolutely no progress in a whole year and I didn't think we could get worse than we did under Warnock!

25 Mar 2014 20:57:54
Tom lees and Danny Pugh are useless.

25 Mar 2014 20:51:57
Maybe Richard "BAM BAM" Naylor could instill some passion. somebody certainly needs to.

25 Mar 2014 20:43:38
What did Vinnie say on Saturday, play with pride, with heart & for the fans, this lot don't care & sorry to say the manager has a job that's too big for him, I've been following Leeds 45yrs & this bunch are shocking.

To think various managers persuaded various owners to buy these so called players is beyond me. No class, commitment, motivation, pride, shame, and certainly not fit to play for my beloved club. Also BMD your job is to motivate, this is part of your job description, clearly you cannot. As I have previously posted apart from 3 or 4 of the current squad we have what can only be described as springboks in depth. I'm gutted. Stickey

I've been following Leeeds for 57 years and they are worse than that.

25 Mar 2014 20:33:08
Wow we really are appalling. Hmm how many players can we offload this summer? Full 11 youth team could so better.

25 Mar 2014 20:22:34
Now its3-0. What a joke

Bmd what a joke you are and please take all those clowns you call players with you when you go why do you play the same clowns week after week Austin, lees

25 Mar 2014 20:19:39
Goin down boys and that fat lady is singing really loud. BMD is useless.

25 Mar 2014 20:14:50
Ok enough is enough 30 mins gone leeds 3 nil down brian don, t come back

25 Mar 2014 19:50:32
1-0 down after 2 minutes - just great.

Make that 2-0.

2-0 after 18 minutes. At this rate it will be another painful night. Joy unbounded. :)

2-0 after 18 minutes, could this be another roasting?

3-0 after 27 minutes --yep another roasting

3-0. What the hell is going on. total joke. would be funny if it was not expensive.

And that makes it 3-0! Wonderful.

3-0 after 30 wtf!

Please bmd if u care about leeds please leave u haven't got a clue

4-0 now.

4-0 after 51minutes deep joy

Is this what hell is like!

25 Mar 2014 18:46:39
3 pts tonight and u never know, remember -15 pts d way we played when we really up against it, bit of passion from the players and we can beat these, mot

Deco d dub

At -15pts season we had a far better team than these jokers, proper loyal hard workers like Andy Hughes and jonathan Douglas and david prutton

- 2-0 down, disgrace!

25 Mar 2014 20:11:24
Every Leeds United fan who believes the FL are wrong to dismiss our takeover should contact them, local MP, the press, local tv leeds radio, and those leeds haters at ssn.

Lets put it out there we know we are being shafted AGAIN and we`re not happy.

Do u reckon I dont

Have you been drinking.

25 Mar 2014 17:42:26
whats really annoying me is that cellino has run cagliari for 20 with no real problems! fair enough he has sacked a 'few' mangers, but he made them a sustainable top division side! can the FL not see that!

Totally agree mate

25 Mar 2014 17:29:54
Why does everyone seem to dislike Lee peltier so much? I know he wasn't captain material but he makes a solid, if unspectacular right back for us in most games. Also the few games where he's been deployed as a centre back he's looked like the best we have to me. Would be interested to see what other people think or if it's just me being crazy.

25 Mar 2014 18:28:46
Ur crazy lol

Personally thought he was a rubbish right back, but you are right he was pretty good at centre back

Could be the speed at which he ran out of the door when he though Colin wanted his services again?

Hardly the sign of a loyal player, maybe?

25 Mar 2014 16:10:12
Tonight I for one would love to see some youth in the squad, I think poleon should be given a start on the wing (filling wickhams spot) to prove himself.

MOT

I would say try aribyi but he is off to tranmere on loan it seems

Poleon not even in the squad?

25 Mar 2014 13:00:55
It has to be said that Cellino is very good at media work and is very good at knowing what to say to stir up the passion in the fans and make himself out to be a poor hard done against businessman. I think its all goats though and he knew what he was doing with the boat, just his accountant wasn't good enough at hiding it and he was hoping that the court would miss it too. If it was an isolated incident then I would feel a little sorry for him and that the FL hate us, but this is the third time he has been found guilty of money crimes (pending appeal of course) and I believe that there is another case regarding embezzlement of funds from the building of Calgaria's stadium that is still outstanding as well.

25 Mar 2014 13:32:03
BMD keeping team choice close to his chest! Mmm blind panic or will it be xmas pudding formation with a random smattering of players somewhere on the pitch all weighed down with worry with regard the future of the club!?! I hope not - Come on Leeds let's have 'em! 3 points would really cheer us all up!

25 Mar 2014 11:06:53
Please take time to read

Yesterday’s Football League decision to block Massimo Cellino’s bid for Leeds United still reverberates around the football world – and appears set fair to make a proper old impact in the bewigged legal environment also. An appeal is inevitable and m’learned friends will be getting their fangs into the meat of the matter, dissecting the terminology of the rules in question (the Owners and Directors test) and entering into interminable semantic debates in an effort to prove white is black and “this” actually means “that”.

Therein, to this blog’s mind, lies the real problem. For, in their eagerness to show the technical application of their regulations to the instant case, the League have failed to pay any attention to common sense, practical considerations and real world consequences. In short they have done what they have leant over backwards to convince themselves they technically can – without anything like enough thought given as to whether they should.

This much is absolutely clear from a reading of their judgement, a not particularly accessible document which is redolent of some player in a game of strategy, anticipating the moves from the other side and exclaiming “a-HA!” as they trump that ace with some wily move of their own. It all looks rather clever, perhaps, but it’s not at all wise – not in the real world. Out there, real people are stuck with the consequences of these endgame machinations from remote, aloof players whose primary concern seems to be showing that they are technically right and that their view should therefore prevail.

The old saying “Just because you can, it doesn’t mean you should” has absolute relevance here. And before anyone decries old sayings, let’s not forget that they become old sayings because of their simplicity and impact, because of the sheer, concise, logical beauty of their common sense and reason. Not for them the contortions and convolutions of legalese, the twisting and turning to try and make a default position appear technically unimpeachable. Cleverness is all about winning in a head-to-head battle of cat and mouse, or in the strategy of chess. Wisdom, on the other hand, is about finding the right solution for the greater good – meeting the interests of the many, not just showing how one ego or the other has succeeded in “proving their position is legally correct”. What we have here, in a nutshell, is the distinction between law and justice. The League have strained every sinew to justify themselves in terms of the former, with scant if any regard for the latter.

In all the acres of print I read yesterday, there was far, far too much about interpretations of law and regulations – and hardly anything about the practical impact on the people who matter – the fans and, by association, Leeds United football club and its employees. The League, after a farcical delay during which everybody with any interest in the matter suffered pain and humiliation to an uncalled-for degree, appeared to have ended up justifying what must have been their default position from the start. Where was the recognition that here was a famous old club that had been in financial difficulty for over a decade, and now had the chance of a fresh start? Where was the consideration of the impact of this decision on thousands upon thousands of people for whom their football club represents a massive emotional and – for the individuals concerned – financial investment?

These real-world issues just weren’t there at all. It was all dry as dust; here are the legal reasons why the bid fails. But what do the League imagine Cellino will actually do, if he was accepted as Leeds owner? Buy another yacht, perhaps, and display it in the West Stand car park with a sign on it saying “No tax paid on this – b******* to the authorities”. Or perhaps he’d buy the stadium back, fund the club and get them promoted and competitive in a higher division under separate jurisdiction. Maybe that’s what they’re scared of.

What is needed here, what was totally absent yesterday, is a measure of wisdom. The Wisdom of Solomon, perhaps – that classical example of the magical compromise solution. Compromise requires give and take, negotiation, the willingness to apply common sense to a situation too fraught with humanity for the application of mere, prosaic regulations alone. But the League have neglected any such avenue of common sense or compromise. In reaching a decision to disbar Cellino because they feel they technically can, without sufficient or any regard for whether they really should, they have ended up throwing that Solomon baby out with the bathwater – and achieving an outcome which threatens to fly in the face of their own duty of care where their member clubs are concerned. Remember that duty of care, gentlemen?

And what do we actually have here, after all? Well, we have a man in Cellino who has made a considerable fortune in his working life – somebody who, as with anyone in that position, will have trodden on toes and made enemies as he rose to the top. That’s hardly unusual, as some of those Football League mandarins will be all too well aware. There are not too many squeaky-clean billionaires out there; omelettes are not made without eggs being broken at some point in the process. ”Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”, said a wise man once upon a time. That was another old saw that went missing yesterday. So we have this Italian guy, loaded with money, wanting to invest in an ailing football club – and he’s demonstrated his bona fides already to the extent of funding that club to a significant degree – without even being recognised as owner. The Football League need their member clubs to be financially viable. It is a vital part of the whole thing working. They should have been crawling on their hands and knees to thank Signor Cellino. So what do they actually do? They reject him, because one interpretation of a complex form of words says they can. Is that wisdom? No it’s not, it’s foolhardy, cack-handed incompetence. Or even worse, it might be prejudice and self-interest. Whatever it is, it’s not common sense.

The fans have admittedly been divided over Cellino, much more so than over certain unsavoury faces from the recent past. Ken Bates, for instance, was regarded as the Devil incarnate by most Leeds fans – and it’s clear from all sorts of evidence and his own personal demeanour that Mr Bates is a deeply unpleasant, profoundly dodgy individual. The fans knew that, and they agitated accordingly, to get him out of the club. The League merely sat on their hands and watched Leeds limp along in poverty and humiliation. And yet, on the other hand, they rule out of court a man that most Leeds fans do want to see at least given a chance – mainly because he represents the best hope of a properly-funded future for a club of history, pedigree and achievement. The blind arrogance of the refusal to afford that chance, the sheer self-defeating stubborn illogicality of it – it’s utterly mind-boggling. The moral is: the fans know best, instinctively, about their own club.

This process still evidently has a way to run – so maybe it’s not too late for the whole rationale behind it to change, and for the better. So let’s not get caught up in the esoteric interpretations of complex regulations – let’s have a little common sense. Let’s not end up with an outcome which will leave the Football League open to charges of failure in its duty towards a member of its own “football family” as that smug article Brian Mawhinney put it so unctuously on several occasions – let’s have impartiality and some pragmatism. The League, though, have form for coshing Leeds United over the head, allegedly in United’s own best interests. They keep feeding us this nasty medicine, saying it’ll do us good – when in reality the appearance is of a draught of poison that might carry us off. We’ve seen it all before – and the fact that we survived in 2007 is no fault of the Football League’s.

So please – let’s have some wisdom and common sense now, instead of dry law and rough justice. There are people out here, gentlemen of the League, people who will genuinely suffer if you carry on in your insistence on disappearing up your own fundament to justify decisions that damage the interests of a struggling football club. Leeds United matters – it matters far more than any legal principle or set of regulations allegedly drawn up to “protect” League members. If the League can’t see that for themselves, then somebody with a bit of common sense and clout needs to enter the process, even at this advanced stage.

Solomon the Wise is sadly not available – so who will step forward and provide the wisdom and insight this farcical situation so sorely needs? It’s sincerely to be hoped that the next few weeks will provide an answer to that.

Cracking post Andy.

That was good hope the persons at the fl read it

A good if somewhat biblical read Andy P.

The duty of care the FL owes us does indeed seem at odds with their decision in our current situation, I mean what would Cellino do against Leeds Utd? He has kept a team in Seria A for many years and knows football and has cash (this is important, owners must have cash and when GFH bought us it is clear they didn't). An independent review (not the FL)of an appeal will give us a good chance to ensure that a duty of care is being carried out and no bias against Leeds, which on the outside looking in, seems to have happened here, i.e. no other takeover has gone on so long with so much comment. Now this may be all for a good reason, may be Leeds fault, but it does smell a little off, just a gut feel.

So an appeal here we come, just make it quick.

DG the Voice of reason?

We all know we aren't going to get anything 'right' or 'fair' from the FL while they allow people like Harvey, Oyston and other Championship managers to judge on us.

It should be done by an independent group who have nothing to lose or gain whether the bid is passed OR NOT.

Until that happens we will NEVER be treated fairly by the FL.

Leeds4alongtime.

Yet another pipe dreamer who thinks that money rules! What you and other misguided kangaroos need to understand there is the word STANDARDS
Genuine long term supporters at this club are fed up with the two faced devious B. s of which we have had our fill – Fotherby, Ridsdale, Kramer and the worst of all Bates
We would rather go down a league and end up with someone who actually cares for this great club and will invest and stick with us until success is achieved –look at Huddersfield as an example

Well said Andy, ED. is there any way to send this directly to someone of importance at the FL, not to the general main adderss. It sums up all our frustrations exactly. Then get a copy to Massimo, I think that over 90% of us are behind him. Again excellent sum up Andy.

{Ed013's Note - I am looking into a link, will try and post it later}

Excellent, cut and paste this in an email to the football league

The most stunning piece of work i've ever seen on here. Congratulations and well said.

25 Mar 2014 16:44:19
What an excellent post Andy P, hope you sent it to MP's, PM, FL, FA and all who'll listen!

Great post.

Why can't FL put the future of Leeds United 1st?
Why can't they put us the Fans 1st?
Why do they " interpret" their rules to the disadvantage of Leeds and to the advantage of other clubs?
Why can't they preserve the future of Leeds United by agreeing to accept a man who has " walked the talk" and INVESTED in Leeds?
How can competitor clubs judge us on this issue? Surely in their interests to stop us being properly funded?

Finally, will the FL be grown up and realise that the biggest crowd pullers ( and hence money for all the other FL clubs) are in serious danger of going under. Why don't you protect the financial interests of the other FL clubs and allow us to survive?

WHO in the FL is going to be man enough to appreciate the danger here and allow Cellino to be our saviour. Do they really want a massive FL member to die with possible knock on impact on other clubs.

I really hope that the FL take their duty of care to preserve the survival of its members as their number 1 priority and allow Leeds a United to survive. Over to you at the FL to show that you actually do care.

AltrinchamWhite

25 Mar 2014 09:46:50
Told you all over a month ago that Cellino would fail the test only to be shot down by the editor.

I now know what is the next stage in the process but have decided I will keep this to myself this time.

{Ed013's Note - I hope that isn't with reference to me!}

Not exactly a revelation. A 50/50 chance of guessing correct. I bet you are well proud.

25 Mar 2014 10:40:45
Set up of FL board a sham. Who votes for these members. Are they checked as FFP. Can convicted criminals sit on this board and judge against others. Is this a job for life or are they changed every year. Another boys club where fit and proper means will our clubs lose out financially do we really want Leeds to do well, is Massimo too big a player for our league and will make the rest of us look crap. CEOs of other clubs should not be given this power. Appeal will go beyond FL and his lawyers need to ask serious questions about whole set up. I know Massimo is not squeaky clean but all you guys saying he is a criminal and not good enough for Leeds need to look around you, councillors, mps, energy co, bankers etc. etc. all criminals just have not been branded yet because of all the boys clubs. Sorry its my rant of the day
BIGE

Please let us In on the next stage where all dying to know ( NOT )!

Might not be the best battle to fight against the editor, when he's the one filtering your posts, just saying.

Maybe you can start a blog with all your exclusive insight, i'm sure as you are that much in the know that this site will haemorrage visitors on their way to you. You can even be your own editor!


On a personal note, this site keeps me busy at work and is a nice addition to the usual trawl of news-now, keep up the good Eds!

KW

25 Mar 2014 09:31:02
In my opinion the 8 football league board members that came to this decision on Cellino should not have been allowed to judge on him, they all have a intrest in not allowing him to take over us as there clubs would be losing out if he flung money into us and as a result we got promotion from it. There clubs would be losing out financially if we went up instead of there club. Plus they would be losing out not having our massive support going through there turnstiles. For me it should have been decided independently. what do you all think of this. Dave

Totally agree, anyone with a vested interest in the outcome should not be able to influence or decide it. It would not happen in other industries, needs to be totally independant. Also it sounds like our not so friendly anymore other potential buyers have been lobbying like mad, a classic old boys network to milk an outcome that suits everyone except our club. Thanks for nothing

25 Mar 2014 08:59:55
Further to that! Just read a good article in the telegraph on line, it states that the buy back price for ER increases every October. Back in 2008 it was £9 million, Cellino was reported to be going to pay £15.7 million, that's either an annual increase of around £1 million, or more worryingly a % increase which means its going to get more expensive faster. Cellino is right, we need investment immediately, pretty soon it will cost more to buy ER than it will to buy the club

25 Mar 2014 10:43:44
who ever takes over needs to attempt to get planning permission to build a new stadium near ER this will then hopefully reduce ER's value as the ER owners will feel threatened of having no1 to rent the stadium to.

I believe Cellino's idea was to buy back ER and create a new training ground within a mile. The buy back clause to get T/A for £6 million expired in 2006, so god knows how much it would cost now!

25 Mar 2014 08:36:24
I am putting my head above the parapet and am expecting it to be shot off by the people who believe a convicted fraudster and embezzler is the perfect man for our great club because he has a some passion for football and manages to say the right things to the media.
Disregarding the current case against which he is appealing he has been convicted in the past of fraud and with one of the cases it involved a not insubstancial sum of between £6-9M depending on which reports you read. Yes I know these convictions are spent but it shows he has no regard for law and who knows what else he has got away with. There is also apparently another case still open against him regarding embezzlement of funds during the construction of Calgaria's stadium.
People on here also keep mentioning other clubs saying how they have been allowed to bend the rules and have crooked chairmen and that the FL have a vendetta against us.
First is Abramovich, he took over in 2003 before the FPP test came into force in 2004 so there were no checks in place when he took over and the FPP cannot be applied retrospectivly.
Then there are the Oystons, they took over in 1999 so same reason as above.
I'll admit Carson Yeung is a weird one, but is a case in point of someone who once in charge had been convicted and the FL could then do nothing about him being in charge. If he wanted to he could still be the chairman of BCFC as he couldn't be forced to stand down but he did the right thing and stood down.
Then you have our own cuddly santa lookalike KB, when he took over he was a respected ex-chairman of a premierleague team and the first time he took over it was a perfectly legal and above board deal and he easily passed the FPP test. The second time he 'bought' us after he had put us in administration as I understand it was seen as a refinancing deal with lendors by an existing chairman so the FL couldn't look into the deal.
Other people have pointed towards the situation at Portsmouth, again I don't fully understand what happened there but I think that the chairmen all passed the FPP test but due to some terrible accounting they ran up large debts that successive chairmen attempted to restructure but ultimately failed, plus I think some of them were similar to GFH, promising that they had loads of money but then failing to get investment. Add to this that they had some very agressive creditors who issued winding up orders and that is why they had to drop into administration so many times.
Finally one last thing, a lot of people are asking why can Cellino not give money to his son and then he buys the club. This won't work as the person buying the club has to show where the money is coming from and this would lead back to Cellino. If that wasn't the case I could just go and ask a columbian druglord (very respectfully of course) to loan me the money to buy LUFC. I would be the front man and as I have no convictions will pass the FPP test, the FL won't bother asking where I suddenly got lots of money from.

At last a sensible comment -dards do count, I for one do not want our club in the hands of rogues anymore

25 Mar 2014 06:58:28
Warnock screwed us again as Peltier deal has fallen through. I't's desperate. I'm afraid this great club of ours is in a very sorry state and I find it hard to see any light at the end of the tunnel now.

25 Mar 2014 00:14:23
Watching late kick off and cellino planning to put club in families name, no sure if fl could pass it but if equity is put in sons name for example then why not? Cellino also palying this month's wage. I hope he can work something out but sounds like he's not giving us up. And for the fans on here saying it's good that he got rejected, why? All of us would avoid some tax if we could, who else would put money into the club before approval? Buy back er? And as for the football league, unbelievable waiting for a pending case, in under Italian law he is innocent until appeal is heard. If cellino fails completely then I can't wait til a squeaky clean billionaire buys us, and one day justice will prevail and us poorly treat fans will have our day, and ps the fl panel should have nothing to do with other clubs, just common sense. The damned United for sure. Mot. Vinny.

Vinny,

Its ok saying we would all avoid some tax if we could. He got caught and convicted on this.

What about his previous convictions for fraud and embezzelment? Is that ok in your eyes? Would we all commit fraud and embezzel funds from our local governments/council? I think not.

The recent tax case regarding his yacht is one thing but he has a history of crime and criminal involvement. Is this the type of person you want owning our club?

Crmd

I would love him to be in charge of our club. All other chairman/owners have a few skeletons in their history that's how they have become rich look at a certain London club.
I do hope that some deal can be done between all parties so he or his family can take us over he has the money the knowledge to run us.

Yes, vinny.

Would welcome cellino with both hands, maybe even a foot too.

MC taking ober would breathe instant stability into the club, wiping out a shed-load of debt that we can't afford right now!

Remember we don't need billions of pounds to get back to the promised land, our sheer number of fans will provide enough income, we just need someone to bring us back to 0 on the accounts page!